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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 7, 2010 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Drums>Space anyone ?

How do you folks feel about the ritual that began roughly in 78-79 , an continued to the end ( and I some forms , in some of the post-Dead bands )?
I mean, mainly "on tape", without the visuals and live experience .
Do you find it one of the most amazing things done at a show, or a boring, piss break ( track skip )?
I think they run the gamut . I tend to like space more than drums, though some of those , Garcai goes "bwwa, bwa, bwa, bwwwaaa" with his guitar synth. , and Weir goes 'REIK, REEIIK" , while the drummers take a break , and get old .
Has a brave soul analyzed the history of this aspect of the Dead's music , ala LIA 's awesome posts ?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jun 7, 2010 11:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

During Show: Loved It (well, when wigging that is; otherwise it was useful mainly as a bathroom/smoke break)

On Tape: skip it

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Jun 7, 2010 11:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Its kind of a "You had to bee there" sort of experience. The large drums do not always translate well onto recordings, but in the hall they shake your bones and rattle your brains. When Mickey and Billy get going the sounds are unworldly and deep, on CD it can sound compressed, and therefore the whole experience is lost in translation...

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 8, 2010 12:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

I tend to only really listen to 66-80, so drums>space isn't quite the "interruption" for me as it is listeners of the later years. Starting with those interminably long drum solos in 78, I always skip them. Then if you were lucky there might be a short little trio of Jerry and the drummers or something similar lasting 2-4 minutes at most before heading into the next tune. Some might call it space, but I say "Jam" is probably more accurate for 78. I will listen to that. 79 got a little more interesting, but again, I tend to skip the drums and head to the "space" segment, which again is more "Jam" than anything. I can't say enough about the jam from 1/15/79. I like that stuff.

It's rare I make it past 79 so no comment there really. I don't get much enjoyment out of listening to the early-mid 80's.

As for the later years (late 80's-95), the rare times I do listen to those shows, the themier jams in drumz/space are often the most interesting parts of the show for me. Stuff like those Hornsby jams from Europe 90. 3/9/92 is another favorite.

In short, I mostly skip. When I do listen, it's far more likely I listen to the space and pass on the percussion segments.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jun 7, 2010 9:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Drums>Space..

usually skip it, but there are a few interesting ones(none spring immediately to memory) that capture my imagination when I do listen

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Poster: dedhed1981 Date: Apr 26, 2015 2:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

I always got up to pee and people watch around the periphery of the arena during drums > space. Met Bear once hawking jewelry in Hartford during that section of a show. Phil's Earthquake space got my attention and I went back in when I heard his "The Barbary Coast..." rap start, that was amazing to experience.

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Poster: snojon Date: Jun 8, 2010 6:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

these drum space sequences usually run between 10 and 20 minutes. when making a CD off the archives. I usually edit it down to 5 or 10 minutes just to keep the flow of the show. sometimes there can be some wonderful passages in this segment, other times it contains the boys making some boring weird noises. I just can't stand those commercial releases where they fade in and out of the drums or space right when it seems like they're about to take off.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 8, 2010 5:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

I'm a world music and experimental music buff so it was sometimes about the most interesting part of the show, though I must admit too much of pure drums was boring even with talking drums and huge huge kit called the Beast.

Guests included Hamza el Din, Olatunji, Gyuoto Tantric Choir, with experimental musical instruments (a journal in N Cali at that time) and oversized balaphons. And of course, The Beam, a very long monochord played with pipes and gun shells and heavy electronics-processed. It was even featured in a museum show along with Partch instruments and so forth.

Garcia and the others got to stretch out for Space and it was cool to see what would come out of it. It could be inspired and resolve a good trip or often just miss like the rest of the show. But then how many came for the show?

I think that Mickey and another Dead person picked up the whole idea for The Beast/The Beam also completely from Francisco Lupica:
http://www.virtualvenice.info/music/francisco.htm

Michael Stearns had a cool album from a Beam installation in LA. See also for Huxley and Lavelle info http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2004/12/star-trek-female-orgasms-and.html

I'd also say that at times the visuals mattered quite a bit -- see the video "So Far" for archetypal mid-80s visuals. Later early fancy graphics were occasionally provided by SGI people called the Raster Masters.

My fave drums/space is Red Rocks 9-7-85, the one going into Dr Mr Fantasy, for both the balafon, Beam (esp), and the guitars.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd85-09-07.sbd.miller.18102.sbeok.shnf

I also like 11-22-85 Harvest Festival at Kaiser because of the 6 foot berimbaus.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1985-11-22.sbd.miller.77404.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 8, 2010 6:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

more on the Beam from others:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&;pageID=2&threadID=61147&archive=0

Mickey Hart on
Grateful Dead Hour #12 and #13
Weeks of November 21 and 28, 1988
http://www.trufun.com/gdhour/GDH01-52.notes.html

This post was modified by spacedface on 2010-06-09 01:35:39

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jun 7, 2010 8:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

I think it would take a braver soul than even LiA to document them all, as they did the drums > space segment at nearly every show in the late 70s and throughout the 80s. I find the majority of the drum breaks excruciatingly boring, but if it lasts under 5 minutes it can usually keep my attention. Same goes for space, except on a few rare occasions. It's the kind of thing I would have appreciated if I were physically there, but on tape there's really not very much to listen to; It would have been much cooler if instead of screwing around and making garbled noises they had attempted to do a true free-form jam where they make MUSIC, as opposed to just sound.

There's nothing cohesive about most spaces; at their best, I think they can enhance the concert as a whole by simply giving the listener a break from tonality. But most of them are way too long to be anything but boring.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 7, 2010 4:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Yeah, sometimes the space would outstay its' welcome .

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Poster: BataviaSparky Date: Jun 7, 2010 9:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

I was always actually embarrassed if a non-head walked in and I was listening to 'Space'. I never could quite explain it other than to say everyone needed a little break, including the band, and non-drug users would usually reply with something to the effect of 'everyone is getting (or is) HIGH AS F^&K!!! Which was likely true for a large portion of the crowd. See my next post.

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Poster: pjcenedella Date: Jun 7, 2010 8:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

while I'm not extremely well versed in D>S, i usually skip them when it gets to that point of a show. nothing against the music made during this section, i'd just rather listen to the post-drums/ending of the second set.

even though the only time i've seen the dead, 4/21/09, i enjoyed drums and space as much as the rest of the show.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 7, 2010 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Drums was almost always a must . Sometimes in the 90's it was the best part of the show . Space was regroup time , rarely leaving the O.K. level . Closer to transition it would have my attention . Once n' a while though ( i.e. , Crazy date of 3 - 18 - 95 , 9' on ) .

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jun 7, 2010 9:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

That's pretty much my view as well. I am typically more interested in Drums than Space. Though both could be tedious, Drums holds more potential -- I enjoy the beam, for example.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jun 7, 2010 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

I think I tend to skip it more often than not nowadays. Back when seeing shows I found it to be a nice break for wandering around the venue and catching my breath a bit from dancing. At Nassau col you could always find plenty of seats behind the stage and we'd usually chill there during drums > space

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 7, 2010 4:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

At Long Beach Arena, I would slip into the open seats behind the band, to see the drums up close . Live, the visual ting added greatly .

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 7, 2010 4:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Honestly, it has a lot to do with my mood . I like percussion music, and avant-garde electronic music ( I got into classical music from Zappa>Varese ), and sometimes the Dead's adventures seemed to really add to the concert, and sometimes they seem to be uninspired, jacking around .
I have noticed some basic traits in the evolution of these segments . They start as being rather normal percussion, then simple space transitions to the upcoming song; then they slowly get more complex , as they get more toys .First the tars, etc, then the electronic drums, the beam; and on the space front , the addition of midi, etc . In general the sections got longer .
I don't know when they started doing this, but before space they would pick an idea or "theme" to base it on . It is too bad they didn't write it down .I t would be cool to g back and see how whatever they chose to use actually affected what they did .

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 7, 2010 11:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Well, I tend to like Drums > Space ... I do definitely listen on tape (or "digitally" or whatever you say now), but not always. I have to be in the mood (and be listening in a quiet space with headphones. It's not the thing to have on while cooking dinner, LOL.) I sometimes skip past it at home if I'm not in the mood, but no more so than other things I might not be in the mood for.

At shows, it wasn't really a time to visit the little girl's room. Best time for that would be a Brent song. I really appreciate Brent, but his songs? Just not GD to me.

Don't know the history, but I've assumed Space evolved out of the freeform explorations of the late 60s and early 70s, plus Phil's work with Ned Lagin. On drums, I'd wonder if the genesis, or at least the expansion, would have come with Mickey's work on Apocalypse Now, plus his growing interest in world music after Egypt.

Rock Scully (or his ghostwriter) describes Drums rather flippantly as a time for the drummers to stop being these half-invisible, hunched-over guys off in the back and finally get a few minutes in the spotlight, which the rest of the band liked because they got to sneak off for a smoke-Persian-Heineken break.

Offhand, one really hot Drums that comes to mind would be Marin Vets 10/31/83. (I think Airto was sitting in, which I guess would mean 3 drummers ... !!!)

http://www.archive.org/details/gd83-10-31.horvath-nak.ladner.19894.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jun 7, 2010 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

I totally agree with the "Brent Tunes" comment - definite break time tunes.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jun 7, 2010 10:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums&;Space anyone ?

Drums was a piss break for me, after a few concerts, they all started sounding the same. I always enjoyed space, it was a good time to fire up and get in the right mood for the last section of the show.

As an aside, when Jerry would start doing the rapid "Bwa Bwa Bwa licks, we always said that was Jerry imitating the sound his water pipe made during drums.

Here's a link for a similar conversation concerning Space a few years back.

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=66554

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-06-07 17:13:14

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 7, 2010 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

sometimes it really worked well - this was probably the most memorable drums-space for me:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd84-07-22.pcm-sbd.miller.30650.sbeok.flacf

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Jun 7, 2010 1:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Good one - thanks BD! That was new to me.

One that gets cited alot is the 4/19/82 "Raven" Space segment - I personally detest that one above any I've ever heard! On the other hand, I love the 1/22/78 McArthur Court "E.T." Space which often is listed as a fan favorite.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 8, 2010 8:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Well, I like the Raven space cuz that was one of my shows :-) Very "fun-weird" in situ, but I can't say I'd sit back and relax to it now, LOL.

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Poster: Longnstrange Date: Jun 7, 2010 3:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

Interesting. Seems Drums and Space would have to be the most played songs (after "tuning" and maybe "take a step back"). What I find hard to believe is how consistant the band made them. I mean really, it's the Grateful Dead after all, yet here you almost always get D/S in the same place. Maybe that's why it became a yawner for a lot of people. It was coming. It was predictable. Everything non- Dead. I do offer 'constructive criticism' to my favorite band on this issue. We needed more first set Drums. We needed more first set Spaces'. We wanted shows that had NO D/S in the eighties(many please). What about Space> Drumz? How about Space>Corrina>Drums>If the shoe fits>Space>Drumz? Allright I'll stop, 'cauz you know what I mean. D/S only sucks because they didn't mix them up or abandon them some nights. I'll admit it, D/S in the eighties defied the Dead rule of 'expect the unexpected'. Think how awesome they would have been if you only got them here or there throughout a tour.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 7, 2010 4:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Drums>Space anyone ?

I thought the same thing ! Ok, as they got older , It gave them all a mid-set break ( to rest or be bad ). Your ideas, would still given them break, and freshen up things; the space>drums thing would especially allowed some interesting things . Hornsby has complained what creatures of habit they were .